From theatre to serious 'art' cinema to even the commercial masala potboiler, Naseeruddin Shah has done it all. Known as a powerhouse of talent, he is about to make his directorial debut with 'Yun Hota To Kya Hota…'
In an exclusive conversation, the actor expresses his severe disgust over the state-of-affairs in the film industry and also speaks on the various myths regarding the star-system that prevails in the industry. And guess what, at the end of all this we asked him about an actor that he looks up to. And if you thought that he would talk about someone like a Dilip Kumar or a Balraj Sahni, he surprised us by quoting Shammi Kapoor as his favorite.
Do check this unconventional conversation that does makes solid sense…

We're talking about your directorial debut Yun Hota To Kya Hota. You are known as one of India's finest actors. How is it that you decided to try your hand at direction?
I have always felt this urge, particularly when I was working in movies that I was unhappy with. I was extremely unhappy with some of the movies I was doing in the early nineties. I had no choice at that time. I was trying very hard to establish my credentials as a popular actor. I succeeded to an extent. I had not trained myself to perform larger than life characters. I was not trained to sing a song convincingly! I had some reservations about the sensibilities. So I ended up doing a lot of films, among which were things like Zinda Jala Doonga, Lahoo Ke Do Rang and Mujhe Meri Biwi Se Bachao. They all seemed to have unending titles! That was a very low phase in my career. I don't remember it with any affection. Instead of grumbling to myself, I began thinking how I would approach a scene like that. In most cases, I realized that I would never have a scene like that in my film. I didn't want clichéd scenes in which people are spouting predictable dialogues. I felt that I am quite incapable of making a popular, commercial, mainstream, masala movie. Firstly because I don't like such movies and secondly because not too many writers can rise above that.

I observed certain things while working with people like Mr. Shyam Benegal, Shekhar Kapur, Gulzar bhai and Sai Paranjpe. I learnt my craft as an actor from them. I think Shekhar Kapur and Gulzar bhai have a magical touch. They know how to put a scene together. I regret that fact that I didn't work with Shekhar after Masoom. We all agreed to do Masoom with great reservations. Shekhar Kapur was a failed actor and we were all feeling pity for him. We said that the poor guy wants to make a film so let's just help him out. To our astonishment, on the first day of the shoot, I realized that I am in a good thing. We're great friends. So it was good fun to be there. And it was a dam good film. I said even I could do it. However, it took me a good 20 years before I actually got down to doing something. I have been trying for a long time. People were unwilling to back the kind of subjects I had in mind. I didn't have the financial support. I have been told in so many words that if I can get two stars in my film, they don't give a damn about what the script is. And this, by people who I thought were serious about backing good films. I have known Shabbir Boxwala since he was an apprentice to Rajiv Rai. We have been good friends. He just came to me and asked me if I would like to make a movie. It was like manna from heaven.

So for how long have you been planning this subject?
Honestly, we didn't really have much time to plan because the money was there for a fixed amount of time. This very script had been stewing in my head for about two years. It is written by a Gujarati short story writer called Uttam Gada. I adapted the script to suit my needs. The script was ready in about six months. I wish we had more time. Then we got all the actors to rehearse. They were aghast because they were just not familiar with the concept of rehearsals! Many of them had never even rehearsed before a scene. Most of them agreed and I am grateful to them! I don't think that I am proficient enough for the film to have a distinctive signature style. But I think that it will tell the stories well, which is my biggest concern. I am not trying prove that I am a great filmmaker. Telling a movie in a film is different from telling a story with words or in a play. But it involves more or less the same rules. Like when a mother tells a story to her children, she becomes the princess, the rakshas and the dragon. So I think that every character should have elements of the film maker.

Apart from being a good story teller, direction also requires technical knowledge. Were you prepared for it?
Not fully prepared. I have not really paid so much attention to the technical aspects, because I was too involved with my own work. Sometimes, that results in tunnel vision. I don't know the difference between different lenses. I don't know the names of many machines that operate and in many cases I don't even know what they do. I don't feel the need to know. I think technique involves telling the stories. It's not just about having fancy shots or knowing when to cut. As far as the machines which scare me, I think I will learn about them with time!

Yun Hota To Kya Hota… What does the title imply?
If 'Man proposes, God disposes', was not such a common cliché, I would have named my film, that. There is another line from John Lennon's song which says 'Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans.' We actually have no control over our lives. We attach too much importance to our own existence and dreams. There is always a higher plan. Many years ago, I was driving down Worli Seaface and I saw a double decker overturn over a Maruti 800. The car had three children in it. Try asking God what is the meaning of something like this? There is no meaning. Life is a series of accidents. Whether you have a successful life or not depends on how well you can cope with these accidents.

Coming to the casting of the film, is it that you had a particular actor in mind for each of the roles? Wasn't it mind boggling, casting so many characters?
Well, no actually. I was quite clear as to who I wanted for the crucial parts. I wanted Paresh, Irfan, Konkona and Ayesha, for sure. Keeping Shabbir's investment in mind, I did try to rope in a couple of so-called popular actors, who I didn't really want! To my great relief, they said no. So I could choose the actors that I wanted, rather than those who would help us sell the film! The notion that you can sell a film which has a star is a myth. I am amazed that intelligent financiers and producers subscribe to this myth. I can name half a dozen movies with big stars that are still sitting in the cans. I believe it is a subliminal desire to be associated with popular stars. It amuses me to no end to see so called serious film makers casting utterly synthetic actors. And expecting them to be real! That experiment is doomed from the word go. I also feel great contempt for these film makers.I wanted the right people for the right role and if some of them happened to be big stars, it was just a co-incidence. I wanted people like Saroj Khan, Karla Singh, Ratna. Ratna play the role of an extra in the film. No star would ever play that role. Thank God! They would never be able to do it convincingly. Ratna lobbied for the part and showed me how convincing she could look. I wanted Suhasini Mule to play the role of a temptress. She is not exactly young. But I wanted to portray a certain relationship between her and Irfan, wherein he is obsessed with her. She was supposed to be visibly older than him. He can't get over it even when she lets him down. She does not even bother to apologize for that. Everyone in life goes through these obsessions. So have I. There is nothing unnatural. Jimmy was good enough to step in at the last second. The actor who was supposed to play the role backed out and it was very generous on Jimmy's part to do the role. They say there are no big and small roles, only big and small actors. Though he was not the first choice, he was sporting enough to say yes in the interest of the film. The big actor is the one with a large heart. It's a question of helping the film. But most stars without exception cannot see beyond themselves. If I were to ask a big star to do a small role in my film, the first thought that would come to his mind would be “How much money will I make?” He would not think that I have come to him because he has a certain kind of a face or look. The calculator inside his head would go off immediately. This kind of attitude makes me sick and I did not want to deal with it. I hope that as a film maker, I never have to deal with it. I got whoever I wanted even in the smaller parts. I was so touched because so many of my friends wanted to be a part of the film. I said that I didn't have a part for them but they insisted. You will see people like Akash Khurana, Rajat Kapoor, Ranvir Shorey, Boman Irani, Makarand Deshpande all in inconsequential parts. I can't tell you how deeply affected I am, by their gesture.

You seem to have a lot of angst against the star system. What are your feelings on the current state of affairs in Bollywood?
I think it is getting worse and worse. We have an illusion that our movies are getting technically better and the world is sitting up and taking notice of Bollwood. It's a flavor of the month, kind of thing and it will last, at the most, for another year. This fascination for Bollywood will not last with the kitsch that we produce. Unless Bollywood pulls up its socks and produces something of substance, which I highly doubt. Even the biggest and most respected film makers of the Bombay film industry are bloody proposal makers. And I have no compunctions about saying this. I can say this to any of their faces. They are all proposal makers. They will think of the actors first and then they will calculate how many crores will come in because of these actors. Only then they will think of a script. Even the most respected film makers. Ask any of them to debate with me on it, if they dare.

Choreographer Saroj Khan will be making her acting debut with this film. How did you envision her in a role?
I guess it just shows the short sightedness of our film makers. The fact is that Saroj ji has one of the most interesting faces I have ever seen. Apart from that face, she has that amazing body! When she demonstrates a step to the heroine of the film, my mouth is open just watching Saroj! And then when the poor heroine comes to do the step, wo bechari Sarojji ke saamne phiki lagti hai! I did not want to use her dancing abilities, but just her face, which conveys tremendous power. She is an unspecified character. She plays the mother of Irrfan and Karan Khanna. I wanted a person who could just sit and generate power without slapping someone and screaming. I have seen her yell at heroines. In fact she has yelled at me, when she was choreographing me. Boy, can she raise the roof when she yells. I've had her yell at one place which I thought was a spine-chilling moment. She didn't ask me what the role was, or how much money or how many days she was required to shoot for. That's the kind of person I adore. Of all the actors, she was most eager to come for rehearsals. She kept calling me and asking when we would begin rehearsals. The others were reluctant. When you see the film, you will agree that she is the only one who could have played this part.

How was it directing your wife, Ratna, in this film?
I am used to it. At home, she directs me! But when we are working together, I do the directing. She is a very fine actress. It's a sore point with her that she has not got the recognition that was due to her. I believe that your recognition comes to you at the right time. I don't think Ratna was cut out to be a regular Hindi film actress. Had she attempted that, she would have probably failed. I keep telling her that she is becoming a better actress with age. That is the great advantage of being an actor, unlike a sportsman. She still looks very young. She gets mistaken for my daughter a lot of times when we are traveling in Europe. I have an unshakeable belief about the acting profession. It is not the question of how good looking or even how talented you are. It's just a question of how much you can persevere. Look at all the successful people in our industry. What is the one common thing in all of them? All of them are not good-looking, talented or well spoken! What does Rajesh Khanna have in common with Vijay Raaz? What does Amitabh Bachchan have in common with Shatrughan Sinha? It's just their perseverance. Ratna is only 45. She has half her life ahead of her and there is plenty more to come. If you accept defeat in your own mind, there is trouble.

What are your expectations from the film?
That, it's a coherent and engrossing film! I hope it moves people. I am not even thinking of what will happen when it releases. In my own estimation, I would have succeeded or failed if I fulfilled these conditions.

You made your acting debut 31 years ago. And now you are all set to become a director. What was more exciting?
Well, acting in movies was very challenging while the thrill lasted. Then it became a bore. After 20-25 years, I realized that it is the most boring job in the world. It's also the best paying job in the world. But I don't want to do much of it in the future. I want to make movies. I will act in an occasional film and that too in a small part, if it catches my fancy. This year I haven't taken on any acting commitments. I want to take a break and ponder over what I have made. I have to see whether I am capable of making another film or not. That will not depend on the box office fate of this film or Khalid Mohammed's opinion in Mid-day. It will be my own estimation of my work.

From amongst the older actors, is there someone you look up to?
I adore Shammi Kapoor. People will snigger when I say this because they expect me to say Dilip Kumar or Balraj Sahani. To tell you the truth, I thought Balraj Sahani was a boring actor, most of the time. Other wise he was brilliant. His performances in films like Kabuliwalla and Do Bigha Zameen are unmatched. I don't know why he never played a villain. I wish he had. But if there is anybody I do adore, it is Shammi Kapoor. I don't think there has ever been a more magnetic, attractive, sexy and funny guy on the Hindi screen, ever. His tragedy is that he never did a great movie. The reason why he might be forgotten in the future is because his movies will not be remembered. He did Pyar Kiya To Darna Kya kind of movies, but they were rotten movies. His good ones are films like Teesri Manzil which might just survive. I don't see why I have to justify why I like Shammi Kapoor. He was just a very good actor. No one can do songs like him. And no one looked more interesting than him. I look up to him. I have attempted to emulate him in my small way. He is the man! There are not too many others who I look up to. There are many people whose work I watch and find interesting.